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Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:36:00 - [1] Originally by: Goumindong Yes, that means it does more damage, has better range, and tracks better than a Megathron. Woo for balance! Wow! So actually Hyperion which is CLOSE RANGE gankboat should be better at close AND long range? I dont think so...
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:42:00 - [2] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Apoc is not the OMG ship, but insted of being legless, it now has a wheelchair. Once cap is fixed, it is ready to stand in its feet. Even w/o testing it i can tell you after "em" fix amarr doesnt need any more boosting to lasers.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:16:00 - [3] Originally by: Ishan Mons no other race doesnt consume ammunition. Projectile weapons dont use cap because they are projectile weapons, they propellant to fire... No other race carriers 50mil ISK of ammo in cargohold either...
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:23:00 - [4] Originally by: General StarScream Tottal bs changes, fix the gallente ships as well then. add 1000 pg to the domi and mega, with 20% extra cap added- Waiting line is 1,5-2 years long afaik.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.02 15:44:00 - [5] Originally by: Mila Prestoc Like has been said, there no reason to use another sniper unless you can't use a Apoc. Then train it and use it. Question again: why gallente MUST HAVE best closerange boats and best snipers? They dont. Thy rule closerange are good longrange. Now amarr rule longrange have good closerange. Happy? If not i opt for nerfing close range so apoc (w/o boost) remains competetive at that distance. 1200dps neutron mega? Naw - 800 should do the trick.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.04 07:55:00 - [6] Originally by: Cosmo Raata Lets see the checklist: Apoc rework____________________Check Zealot/Omen 5th turret_________Check EM rebalance___________________Check (even though it wasn't great) Tracking Disruption fix________Check Laser Cap reduction_________????? Laser Fitting redution_________????? 7th turret Absolution__________????? Retribution Med slot___________????? Nos rework for Curse/Pilgrim___????? Laser cap red is not needed after changes. Lasers are becoming one of heaviest hitting weapons now so reduction would make em over the top. Fitting reduction - yep on some (med beams? maybe medium pulses? and heavy beams possibly too). 7th turret on absolution - never. Atm abso-sleip-astarte balance is pretty good. Adding 1 turret to abso would mean it rips apart EVERY other command ship w/o even trying hard. Abso with 2x sink and 2x rep is very comparable to dualrep neutron astarte now (its tad better and will win the fight in straight slugfest, astarte needs to outtrack abso). With 7 turrets abso will always win here. Same vs sleip. Till now abso vs sleip combat is dependant on pilot skill (1lvl of specialisation does make the difference here). Adding 1 more turret will always kill sleip. Retribution - i agree. Same with coercer to be honest. But ccp needs to look at all AFs. Nos rework for curse? This ship works OK now. Its not afk-winner just needs some skill (yes i did use it after the nerf with great success. Pilgrim - didnt use yet but should be doable with TS neuts fit. Tho id prefer to get range bonus instead of neut power.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.07 20:24:00 - [7] Originally by: Firmus Terra Edited by: Firmus Terra on 04/02/2008 13:05:44 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Laser cap red is not needed after changes. Lasers are becoming one of heaviest hitting weapons now so reduction would make em over the top. Um, lasers are still going to be one the weakest choices in PvP outside of sniper fleets. The EM resistance change did not magically push our DPS to blaster level, EM is still the weakest damage against armor tanks (two thirds of eve), and lasers still have mediocre maximum DPS. So how did you translate that into "lasers = becoming heaviest hitting weapons"? Missile and projectile users can pick Amarr damage types at will. I promise you that you won't be seeing Minmatar and Caldari pilots switching to EM ammo to break an armor tank any time soon. Primary concern of the Amarr community was always capacitor use of lasers and the second bonus that it steals from so many ships. The changes are nice but they are for the most part fixes with a very limited focus and these issues so far have not been addressed. The Apoc boost seems to have everyone convinced that fleet sniping is the crux of EVE. The changes might seem a little overwhelming to you, but if you calm down for a second and look at them objectively you'll see laser boats in general are still almost as bad off as they were before. Start flying geddon maybe you will understand what i meant. Atm fight with blaster mega/blaster hype is 50/50 game. After changes it wont be sure victory but it will help quite a bit in this combat. Also it will help a LOT vs minnie armor tanks. Oh and 20% damage increase on EM = 10% total damage increase (using multi ammo with 50/50 EM/thermal split). I always like 10% more damage. As for capacitor problems - as soon as you drop them down blaster users will also cry for cap reduction. Except for some ships (zealot/absolution/abaddon) i can live with cap being sucked by guns. Oh yea - and zealot will have serious cap issues now :) Read: 25% more cap use ;p
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.08 13:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Firmus Terra Edited by: Firmus Terra on 08/02/2008 12:38:56 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Start flying geddon maybe you will understand what i meant. Atm fight with blaster mega/blaster hype is 50/50 game. After changes it wont be sure victory but it will help quite a bit in this combat. Also it will help a LOT vs minnie armor tanks. You seriously think a 'Geddon has a 50% chance vs. a Megathron? I don't see how that's remotely possible, since they're both quite similar in style aside from the mega being slightly better in almost every aspect, but OK. I specialize in T2 cruisers personally so I wouldn't know. But then again I don't think anyone would because where are you going to get two people who are identically skilled in each respective ship with equal fittings to 1v1 each other? Then dont "assume" things. And dont guess. If you dont use lasers (especially t2 ones) then why are you taking part in discussion abt lasers in first place? Yes my geddon has around 50/50 chance VS mega (combat starts at 15-20k range) mostly dependant on mega bumping me (im dead) or mega missing me (i win). Originally by: Deva Blackfire Oh and 20% damage increase on EM = 10% total damage increase (using multi ammo with 50/50 EM/thermal split). I always like 10% more damage. Have you stopped to think that maybe 10% isn't all that much when it's boosting our damage per hit from something like 30 to 33 on T2 omni tanks? EM is still the single weakest damage type vs. armor, and armor is still the prevailing method of tanking in PvP. That hasn't and is not going to change. Recalculating it as a percentile just makes it seem big, it doesn't mean you're going to break tanks much easier in practice. If i do 33 not 30 damage then im doing 10% more. This means i DO break enemy tank faster. Unless your logic says "more damage = enemy tanks better". And btw - usual hits are quite larger than "30" damage. Originally by: Deva Blackfire As for capacitor problems - as soon as you drop them down blaster users will also cry for cap reduction. Except for some ships (zealot/absolution/abaddon) i can live with cap being sucked by guns. Oh yea - and zealot will have serious cap issues now :) Read: 25% more cap use ;p Why would blaster users cry for a cap reduction when even if lasers cap use were to be cut by 50% innately, blasters would still use less cap than lasers by ~10%, do much greater DPS, have better tracking and better damage types? All I'm proposing is we get our second ship bonus to make up for all the downsides to lasers. You mean downsides being better range? Actually blasters vs lasers are pretty ok balanced. Thing that breaks everything are autocannons with pretty good range (especially when most minnie ships still get faloff bonus), no cap use, good tracking. For RR BS gangs imo blasters are worst choice mostly because to crap range. Anyways: i know everyone would like ot get +50% damage on lasers and prolly no cap use. But not gonna happen. Post fix lasers will get enough boost to be back in line, zealot gets scary (imo 5th turret OR em resist reduction would suffice).
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.08 15:41:00 - [9] Quote: Don tell me you don consider scorch to be a range advantage. 45 km range is far better than what AC with barrage get. So Amarr do have range advantage when they want to. You have range advantage which you barely use. Most combats either happen at 150+km or 0-20km where multi is enough. I can count on fingers of my one hand situations when i absolutely NEEDED scorch to hit something (instead of chosing other closer target). If enemy needs to fight at under 20km it means he will close the gap to you - so you both fight at that distance. Quote: On Mega vs Geddon. depends a lot on type of tanks/ drones etc a EANM+ DC + Explosive hardener against a geddon with Ogres II is a good bet for the Geddon. Same tank but besearkers and all goes better to mega. Change tank to 2 EANM and DC and the drone selection inverts and the lasers deal far less damage etc... Yes yes, depends depends... blah blah. And most ppl fly "standarised" setups anyways. Either dualrep electrons or plated neutrons. You eat dualreps w/o any problem, with neutrons its classic 50/50. And yes i was including 2x eanm + DC fit on mega, not funny hardener setup (which gives like 5% more resists on 3 damages but lacks EM hardening + needs more slots to fit DC). Quote: Also if both are plated and with MWD ( then geddon need to drop web to fit boosters). The geddon might kite him long enough to take most proffit from the scorch. But then the lack of web makes harder to finish the fight. I hope you know that if you use scorch then you are either: 1. wasting damage you could deal with other ammo? (multi is perfect for 15-25km) 2. sitting out of scram range so he can warp?

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